Posts by Joe Grundy

75

Australian Royal Commission Findings released

by Mephis in

will just post the general findings by counsel for the commission (angus stewart) - case specific ones are prior to them.

in short, absolutely damning.. not been through every submission myself yet.

available for download here: http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.aspx.

Joe Grundy

Punk:

You're right, of course, but sometimes it is far more effective to word these things properly.

E.g. 'Dr Applewhite's report is rejected'. That says it all - and effectively f**** her future career as an 'expert'.

75

Australian Royal Commission Findings released

by Mephis in

will just post the general findings by counsel for the commission (angus stewart) - case specific ones are prior to them.

in short, absolutely damning.. not been through every submission myself yet.

available for download here: http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.aspx.

Joe Grundy

Not only looking grim for WT in Oz - ARC has effectively demonstrated that all policies and procedures world wide are dictated by the GB in NY.

Wide implications, I think.

75

Australian Royal Commission Findings released

by Mephis in

will just post the general findings by counsel for the commission (angus stewart) - case specific ones are prior to them.

in short, absolutely damning.. not been through every submission myself yet.

available for download here: http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.aspx.

"F56 This report is referred to the Law Society of New South Wales in relation to the conduct of
Mr Toole in having failed to advise congregational elders of their obligations to report their
knowledge of the commission of certain criminal offences to the police."

Whatever, Toole's performance was shambolic and pathetic. One can imagine that he is likely to be struck-off/disbarred by LSNSW (rightly so, IMO).

That brings me to the recent WT Oz letter looking for qualified lawyers and accountants. My guess is that there won't be that many. I would also guess that qualified and licenced professionals may be more likely than most to be inquisitive and that lawyers in particular are following ARC proceedings.

Members of the hierarchy of WT have only to obey to be blessed, but JWs who are professionals (e.g. lawyers) must comply with the standards of their professional regulators to maintain their standing (and their licence). I wonder whether a lawyer who is doing quite nicely thank you and who happens to be a JW would be happy to compromise everything if he was called on to do something by WT that goes against his professional judgement.

I shouldn't make personal judgements, but I will. I spent my professional life around lawyers and I have some experience of them. On the basis of his appearance before ARC I would say that Toole was an ideal WT lawyer. He presented as evasive, weak, lacking in knowledge and a weasel who could be easily influenced. But he had the all-important Practising Certificate and thus was useful for signing stuff. Sorry if that's harsh, Mr Toole, but you knew or should have known what you were doing. You can't be a respected independent professional and a WT drone at the same time.

On another point - there were some comments posted here from posters who were disappointed at the lack of showy courtroom fireworks during the ARC hearings. I think that the ARC findings show that the best way to do these things is politely, calmly, professionally, clinically, forensically. Still working through the documents but I am very impressed so far. (Note that unlike WT publications everything is properly referenced and checkable). The bits of WT rebuttal I've read so far seem to be fairly poor. I wonder whether Toole was invited to assist with the rebuttal, or if WT is already trying to distance themselves from him.

The ARC is only valid within Oz, of course, but with other enquiries going on elsewhere (CC in UK and the wide-ranging enquiry just started) I have little doubt that the evidence arising from ARC won't go unnoticed, especially because the Oz and UK legal systems and procedures are compatible and - usefully - ARC has demonstrated that WT policies and rules are dictated world-wide by the GB.

50

The money question...

by Tornintwo in

jw
friends

i am intrigued to know if there is truly any evidence of financial irregularities in the jehovah's witness organisation or if any one or group are raking off funds or benefitting financially...?.

whilst i disagree wholeheartedly with most of their teachings and practices, dogmatism, legalism and superiority complex, i don't honestly think there's anyone making millions at the top.

yes you could say that the gb are comfortably off, don't have to pay bills etc but they do actually get up in the morning and 'work', they aren't going off in private jets to tropical islands or driving bentleys.

Joe Grundy

I never was a JW. I was, for ten years, a commander of a Police Fraud Squad/Money Laundering Investigation Unit.

We dealt with several cases where 'believing congregations' (of all faiths) were defrauded to a very large extent by scammers who used their 'professed brotherhood' to overcome normal caution. Or, if someone is a brother in our religion, of course we can trust him. That sort of thing.

Conmen have told me that they go for family first, then those with who they have a connection, because 'they're easier'. Working themselves into a religion-oriented group is very easy.

13

Question time

by Sabin in

with all the evidence stacked against them on child abuse issues, why do you think they are still refusing to play ball with the authorities?

why not put their hands up & say "we got a problem, we need help to change our medieval policies, we need advise on how to conduct our affairs in away that is in the victims best interests".. do you think that it is blatant, selfish pride.

the risk of losing money & struggling as a consequence, or they truly believe that jehovah is protecting them & by admitting they have acted in this inconceivable way would bring reproach on his name?.

Joe Grundy

Having watched it again, I commend to you day 7, part 3, of the ARC proceedings. 1.52.00 on. A very polite but very effective bollocking from the judge. Note his comment that a consultant;s certificate re Jackson's father 'won't assist' and that time will be made the next week for Jackson's evidence.

Bear in mind that by this time the ARC had already heard from WT Oz elders, its chief lawyer and its head Oz JW.

12

Magazine money

by pepperheart in

from next year the borg will only be publishing the two magazines saving about $2 million dollars a month.

what do you think they will be spending the money on

Joe Grundy

There will be an impact. In the UK, the public accounts show that WTUK received several million pounds from IBSA for supplying - allegedly at cost - printed publications for the 'missionary work'.

WT and IBSA are in the same building.

Reminds me somewhat of the Starbucks/Amazon et al tax saving set-up but surely I'm mistaken?

6

Watchtower ~ IBSA

by Joe Grundy in

i never was a jw.. i wonder if those who know more about this than i do can clear something up for me.. as i understand it, when rutherford took over and changed the name to jws, there was a major split and some (the rump?

) went off and retained the old name of 'bible students'.

i thought that the old, original 'bible students' were quite separate from current jws.. and yet ... the wt hq in uk is at 'ibsa house'.

Joe Grundy

Thanks.

6

Watchtower ~ IBSA

by Joe Grundy in

i never was a jw.. i wonder if those who know more about this than i do can clear something up for me.. as i understand it, when rutherford took over and changed the name to jws, there was a major split and some (the rump?

) went off and retained the old name of 'bible students'.

i thought that the old, original 'bible students' were quite separate from current jws.. and yet ... the wt hq in uk is at 'ibsa house'.

Joe Grundy

Thanks for that.

I'm familiar with the 'associated corporation' transactions thing. I was just a little surprised to see the acknowledged connection between the official WT and IBSA. Knowing how concerned WT is about external appearances, it seemed strange to see any possible link with (what I'm sure WT considers apostate) 'Bible Students'.

The more you peel the onion ...

13

Question time

by Sabin in

with all the evidence stacked against them on child abuse issues, why do you think they are still refusing to play ball with the authorities?

why not put their hands up & say "we got a problem, we need help to change our medieval policies, we need advise on how to conduct our affairs in away that is in the victims best interests".. do you think that it is blatant, selfish pride.

the risk of losing money & struggling as a consequence, or they truly believe that jehovah is protecting them & by admitting they have acted in this inconceivable way would bring reproach on his name?.

Joe Grundy

"However I wont hold my breath that justice will be done here .Religion still has a big influence to many people ,politicians and the judiciary dont want to get offside with the voters .Even though they may be well aware J.W.`s do not vote or take part in politics other religions certainly do.

And they do not want to offend them .

smiddy"

Well, I'm a little more optimistic (here in UK). JWs - in my estimation - are generally an unknown irrelevance and I'd be surprised whether any politicians give them a thought (even if they've vaguely heard of them). And although I'm a wizened old cynic, our (non-elected) judiciary have consistently been independent. I don't think anyone is bothered about offending such a minor inconsequential group.

We don't have a RC ongoing, of course, but we DO have a Charity Commission investigation ongoing, and the present parliamentary enquiry into the Kids Company charity fiasco indicates that (however belatedly) things can come to light.

I spent a lot of my professional career in courts dealing with judges and senior lawyers. Its a different world, full of understatement and courtesy. Only once did I ever see a barrister have to apologise to a court in the terms that the WT lawyer did to the ARC. Translated, it means 'my shitbag of a client has lied to me (beyond the normal boundaries that many of them do) and I want nothing to do with it'. The clients concerned were the head JW in Australia and Jackson of the GB. That did not go down well at all.

Add to that that WT Oz was offered (several times) polite opportunities to agree that they might consider amending their policies (other organisations were eager and happy to do so), that they might consider joining a redress scheme (other organisations were happy and eager to do so), and what was their response? Fiddling and farting, quoting old bible bits that HHJ was able to blow out of the water easily

WT was left looking like a joke - but a dangerous one because child and other abuse is involved. I can only guess that in Oz this subject is now taken as seriously as it here is (now) in the UK. I can accept that in the US, the religious aspect may have a bearing but I don;t think it does in Oz or UK. (Would Jackson even have been subpoenaed in the US, I ask myself, or would the whacky religion rules have prevailed?)

I would love to have been a fly on the wall when HHJ and Angus were having a cup of tea together after the WT evidence!

13

Question time

by Sabin in

with all the evidence stacked against them on child abuse issues, why do you think they are still refusing to play ball with the authorities?

why not put their hands up & say "we got a problem, we need help to change our medieval policies, we need advise on how to conduct our affairs in away that is in the victims best interests".. do you think that it is blatant, selfish pride.

the risk of losing money & struggling as a consequence, or they truly believe that jehovah is protecting them & by admitting they have acted in this inconceivable way would bring reproach on his name?.

Joe Grundy

PS: Having watched Jackson's performance at ARC, I was struck by his singular lack of qualification to be part of a management board of a major international corporation.

IIRC, baptised into a cult as a child, little or no formal education, worked his way up through an organisation where 'faith' (i.e. blind belief without being bothered by facts) was the main criteria.

I would not, TBH, reasonably expect Jackson -or any of his cadre with the same qualifications - to be able to make rational decisions.

Jackson comes across as a cocky deluded nutjob. It was illuminating to compare his performance (guided by his god as he no doubt was) with that of 'poor worldly' Angus Stewart and HHJ McClelland.